2006年10月13日

韦恩 格雷茨基 与 马里奥 勒米厄

谈论冰球的兴起’在新时代,悉尼·克罗斯比(Sidney Crosby)与亚历山大·奥维奇金(Alexander Ovechkin)即将进行的史诗般的战斗已经名列前茅,梦last以求的最后一场冰上曲棍球对决非常容易– 韦恩 格雷茨基马里奥 勒米厄.

在我的大部分青年时代,这种比较一直存在。这是不可避免的。十年来,只有两种选择。而您必须选择。

在加拿大成长’在西海岸,即使我为悲伤的家乡温哥华卡纳克人队(Fancouver Canucks)喝彩,我还是出生于Gretzky迷。但是,不可能不见证埃德蒙顿油工的辉煌岁月。我一直在西方的电视上看,一生中对《伟大的一面》的欢呼比任何其他选手都高。在好莱坞期间,我继续为他加油打气,希望他能在那场中国彩票中再次夺得史丹利杯,这与他的命运息息相关。当然,他一次又一次地为我们的国家带来了荣耀。

You could definitely suggest that the reason that I, as an impressionable youngster, became the rabid hockey fan I am today is 韦恩 格雷茨基.

Sadly, I never gave 马里奥 勒米厄 the same chance.

Part of it is due to the time zone differences 和 not having access to many Penguins games on TV back in those days, 但largely it was because I was a 格雷茨基 fan.

对或错,从成年后来看,绝对是错的,’就是这样。就像您秘密地欣赏了两者一样,一个真正的粉丝必须选择一个。

我之所以选择Gretzky,主要是因为西海岸的偏见,以及他早在这个敢于挑战他的伟大的东方人来到现场之前就已经建立了。但我也选择格雷茨基,因为他风度翩翩。你忍不住想要那个曲棍球高手’的食物链,不仅为未来的曲棍球明星,还为您的孩子和您自己设定标准。

For much of 勒米厄’s career, he was dubbed as cold, indifferent 和 aloof, although it turned out he was just misunderstood. Later in his career he finally became the charming prince everyone wants the top player in hockey to be, the impossible standard that 格雷茨基 set.

My 在 titude towards 马里奥 勒米厄 changed briefly after leading the nation to victory 在 the Canada Cup in 1987 和 again after his amazing comeback from a difficult bout with cancer. My mindset on 勒米厄 had changed, 但somehow it was always more about appreciation of him than love for him, 和 more respect for his abilities than admiration for his ways.

As a result, I ended up not truly experiencing 马里奥 勒米厄’s greatness, a greatness that surpassed 格雷茨基’s。我在电视上看到了精彩场面,在CBC上也看到了两次史丹利杯决赛,但我错过了很多。这个家伙为慢性背伤和癌症而战’s sake, 和 I never warmed up to him because I was a 格雷茨基 guy.

So heed my advice, hockey fans. While I watched 格雷茨基 play hockey as if he were conducting his 要么 chestra, I missed 勒米厄’一支同样史诗般的攀爬音乐乐队。唐 ’愚蠢到认为您必须在Sidney Crosby和Alexander Ovechkin之间进行选择。吸收他们所提供的一切。唐’只是欣赏他们,欣赏他们。

Share Your Memories of 格雷茨基 与 勒米厄 using the comments section below!

56条评论:

匿名 said...

嘿,甜蜜的比较,并恭喜Paul在库克勒(Kukla)的科纳(Korner)接手!
我相信您今天收到的流量激增。
无论如何,明天我将在NHL Digest上发表有关Phil Esposito的文章,如果您能在评论中发表自己的想法,我将非常乐意。
谢谢,祝您周末愉快。

布伦丹 说过...

Very eloquently put. 一 of 最好的 comparisons I've ever read. Keep up the good work!

匿名 said...

嘿...我知道你告诉我不要选择,但我只是认为克罗斯比是个婴儿。 Ovechkin一生。尽管我是魔鬼迷,但我对Ovechkin表示赞赏,但对Crosby却不满意,因为每当他受到打击或每当他认为某事会受到处罚时,他都会向裁判哭泣!去吧!


(和ovechkin)

未知 说过...

我感觉就像您一样,我也将Crosby和Ovechkin视为曲棍球的礼物,而不是辩论。我很喜欢这次沿着记忆小路旅行。

匿名 said...

格雷茨基曾经像克罗斯比一样……扑朔迷离,跳水以吸引裁判的注意力……他长大了!给孩子一个机会,他刚满20岁!再一次,建议不要选择一方,但我对此无能为力!我认为Kid是真正的交易,因为Ovechkin将是Selanne类型的球员...太好了,但并不十分出色。无论如何,他们俩都参加了东部会议,所以我将有幸同时观看这两个节目!

匿名 said...

我认为这是一个很好的比较,但是很难不比较Crosby和Ovechkin。 Crosby ovechkin带领PENGUINS只是一个得分王,而不是领袖。

匿名 said...

韦恩 is the 最伟大的 在 hlete of all time 和 a true ambassador to his sport. No one in the history of any sport has done as much 要么 continue to do what this man does for hockey. 马里奥 began his career as a hold out which put me off. There are thousands of kids out there who sacrifice everything along with their parents just to get a shot 在 the NHL 和 he decides he is above the game. Eric Lindros learned well 和 took self importance to the next level.
马里奥 is awesome, undeniably 和 saved a franchise. 格雷茨基 was great while saving 和 growing an entire professional sport. 格雷茨基 vs 勒米厄 there is no contest. They retired #66 in Pittsburgh they retired #99 from the league. No other 在 hlete in the history of the world can claim that. 的rivalry should be 格雷茨基 versus Jesus. Hopefully one day they will both make a comeback.
史考特
卡尔加里

匿名 said...

There is no real yway to say who is better really. 韦恩 scored a zillion goals 和 assists, 但on the oilers he also had great wingers, so alot of the glory is to be spred out. 马里奥 had jagr..that was pretty much it. however marios numbers wernt as great AND when wayne went to LA (a really crappy team) he was STILL the scoring point leader.

克罗斯比战胜了奥维奇金,奥维奇金打入了一个进球,他刚刚获得第40名。克罗斯比有一个进球,但80次助攻(过度消耗,但我明白了),而且克罗斯比拥有出色的队友,而奥维奇金则无人。

匿名 said...

嘿,
I am from Pittsburgh 和 priveledged to have seen mario play the game, he was incredible to watch,he had more power than 格雷茨基, just as fast 和 a better shot.What kept 马里奥 from the top of the record books was his health. 格雷茨基 played in 500 more games than lemieux giving the 好人 the statistical victory. 那 said, 100 years from now the stats are all that will matter. Sorry la magnifique

Lextune 说过...

韦恩 和 马里奥 were so completely different. The uncanny playmaking of 韦恩 seem to stem from his ability to see into the future. 韦恩 knew where everyone, 和 the puck, was; 和 they were all going to be. Interestingly, it was this same ability that seemed to make it impossible to "排队他"击中怪物每个打电话给他的人"受保护的", failed to understand. He was 难以捉摸.

马里奥 on the other hand, came right 在 you 和 just outdid you. If it took strength, either physical 要么 skating strength, fine, he was better than everyone 在 that. If it took skating finesse that was fine too, he was better than everyone 在 that as well. Stick handling wizardry? Yeah, he was 最好的. Pure shooting sniper powers? No problem. Some "格雷茨基esque" playmaking needed? 那 was no problem either. Every conceivable set of hockey skills was not only his 在 the highest possible level, 但it all seemed rather easy to him (hence the "懒" label he had for a time). 我不't think anyone can argue that if 勒米厄 had been healthier many, if not most, of 格雷茨基's records would have fallen (Gretzky himself has said as much). But that is a very big "if". And health is, of course, a big part of any contact sport. So 格雷茨基 has to be seen as the 最伟大的 player of all time.

All that being said, those of us who were lucky enough to live the age of 格雷茨基 和 勒米厄 can just be happy to have seen them both.

匿名 said...

当他们说韦恩比马里奥有更多帮助时,我会从匹兹堡和它的废话中查找帮助清单。
罗恩·弗朗西斯(Ron-Francis)1798pts第4次
第七届马里奥-莱米厄克斯1723pts
9th-all-time-Jaromir-Jagr-1599pts
保罗·科菲(12th-all-time-Paul-Coffey)1531分
布莱恩·托蒂尔(14-14)
卢卡·罗贝蒂尔19394所有时间1394pts
21st-all-time-Mark-Recchi-1381pts

格雷茨基·哈德·梅西耶·科菲·库里和丹佛斯·勒米厄曾三度帮助他

匿名 said...

关于永恒的曲棍球伟大的比较永恒的主题上的一些要点。

Like most hockey fans who were lucky enough to experience the era of 韦恩 和 马里奥, I have utmost respect for each of them, as unbelievably gifted 在 hletes 和 leaders whose contributions to sport 和 society are the qualities of genuine role models.

As a lifelong hockey fan 和 also a lover of classical music, in my mind the parallel to 韦恩 和 马里奥 was Mozart 和 Beethoven. Each being magnificent beyond comparison to all others, with overlapping careers although not 在 their peaks 在 the same time. Thinking of this analogy, in my mind I believe that 韦恩 和 马里奥 may prove to be the 最伟大的 over a time span of several centuries (just as Mozart 和 Beethoven have remained the unsurpassed 最伟大的 in the field of classical music).

Part of this is because they performed in an era of hockey dominated by offense. And this was maybe the 最伟大的 legacy of 格雷茨基. 格雷茨基 和 the Oilers proved that, with truly exceptional talent 和 a coach who was bold enough to defy conventional wisdom, an all-out scoring machine could win championships.

In the era of free agency 和 salary caps, the greater parity that results means that it is very unlikely for any team to have such depth of scoring talent as either 韦恩's Oilers 要么 马里奥's Penguins. 的game has therefor regressed to be dominated again by defensive systems, which is much easier to teach 和 win championships with.

So it seems more likely than before that most of 格雷茨基's amazing scoring records may never be broken. Think about what it would take for them to be broken. It would need another player who was as much greater than the rest of his team mates 和 opponents as 格雷茨基 was; 和 a reversal to an era based on pure offense; plus a team of similar greatness (and youth) as the Oilers had, 和 a coach who designed the team around this even though defense usually wins championships. And 格雷茨基's 最伟大的 records are his career records, which require not only such excellence 但amazing ability to minimize injury despite being prime target for twenty years.

只有两名球员改变了中国彩票的方式:鲍比·奥尔(Bobby Orr)和韦恩·格雷兹基(Wayne 格雷茨基)。每个团队都非常出色,以至于围绕他们的团队将纯粹的进攻提高到了以前从未见过或认为不可能的水平。也许奥尔(Orr)甚至更令人惊讶,尤其是当一名防守球员赢得得分王(两次)并创造了令人难以置信的正负+121记录时。但是韦恩的耐心和领导才能给他带来了优势。

马里奥 was probably more gifted than 韦恩, 和 certainly had the huge advantages of size 和 reach. His comebacks from serious illness 和 chronic back injuries were almost unbelievable.

Would 马里奥 have changed the game if his career had preceded 韦恩's? 那's impossible to say, 但it seems unlikely. Indeed, if the Islanders "drive for five" had knocked off the Oilers in 1984 (as they had in 1983), it's very likely that the Oiler team would have been broken up, in 要么 der to add more defensive balance, in the belief that pure offense could not win championships.

Finally, in my opinion, the 最伟大的 series 和 talent show was the Canada Cup of 1987. All three games were one-goal games, with the Russians winning the first. 格雷茨基 was the established leader in his prime; 马里奥 was the rising star 和 played on 韦恩's line. 格雷茨基 was the master playmaker 和 马里奥 the sharp shooter; the combo was pure magic, almost certainly 最好的 ever. 马里奥 also pointed to this experience of learning from 韦恩 what it takes to be champion.

匿名 said...

没有一个。鲍比·奥尔(Bobby Orr)。彻底改变这项运动并迎接现代时代的家伙。

But, I place 66 ahead of 99. He had the ability to skate through defense, an incredible shot, 和 he wasn't afraid to get rough when he needed to be play a physical game. 那 can't be said for 格雷茨基....not 在 all. Had 马里奥 been healthy, he may have broken 格雷茨基's records.

格雷茨基's significance (other than all-time point leader) was how well he represented the game during the ESPN/Mass advertising era. This intense spotlight was not available to 在 hletes before then.

1. Orr
2. 勒米厄
3.豪
4. 格雷茨基

特鲁莫先生 说过...

为了匿名,

The list of players that you say 马里奥 played with is accurate, 但for how long were each of them on 马里奥's team? And, how many of them were on the team 在 the same time. 格雷茨基's team was loaded with stars, 和 马里奥's team had stars added to it 和 taken away. His team was never loaded with stars like 格雷茨基's. Look what 马里奥 勒米厄 did for Rob Brown. When he played with 马里奥 he had 239 points in three years. He only scored 438 points total in his entire 19 year career 和 that includes nhl, ihl, ahl, 和 whl! 马里奥 勒米厄 was 最好的 hockey player to ever put on the skates. 韦恩 格雷茨基 was great, 马里奥 was magnificent.

匿名 said...

勒米厄 was 最好的 player there ever was 和 ever will be. Just imagine the numbers he could have put up without battling through all those injuries that led to his early retirement, 和 eventual return. No way in hell 格雷茨基 could have put up the numbers 勒米厄 did with the same problems 勒米厄 went through. 勒米厄 was the most gifted goal scorer of all time 和 it was an absolute pleasure watching him through all those years.

切利 说过...

The difference between 格雷茨基 和 勒米厄 was their early years; 韦恩 had an incredible desire 和 drive to win, 和 it seems like 勒米厄 only got that as he matured. But when he did get that taste for winning -- look out.

The biggest knock against 勒米厄 was injuries -- especially the back problems that dogged him for most of his career 和 then the Hodgkin's disease that took away more than a season (cumulatively, when you consider the games he missed when on chemotherapy 和 the season after when anemia took him down).

There is no doubt that 格雷茨基 had the better career, of course. But 勒米厄 was the better talent.

匿名 said...

who ever said lemieux had more help than gretzky obviously never watched a game of hockey in the 1980's. Oilers were a dynasty pens could have only dreamed of being. 勒米厄 was more talented 但injuries diminished what 本来可以 the 最伟大的 career of any player ever.

乔·佩莱捷 说过...

It is generally agreed that 格雷茨基 had a better supporting staff than 勒米厄.

那 being said, I think 勒米厄 supporters under appreciate the staff 勒米厄 did have.

保罗·科菲(Paul Coffey)是99和66成功的关键。

Ron Francis was one of the game's 最伟大的 centers, not unlike Mark Messier in every regard other than stature.

Jaromir Jagr是曲棍球历史上十大进攻球员之一

布莱恩·特罗捷(Bryan Trottier)非常有经验。

Rick Tocchet 和 凯文 Stevens were great physical presences who admittedly benefited offensively from 马里奥.

年轻的马克·雷基(Mark Recchi)逐渐成为一名出色的双向球员。

勒米厄's support cast was pretty damn good.

匿名 said...

People forget 马里奥 was drafted on the worst team in the league as most #1 picks usually do, while Gretz lucked out 和 was sold to the Oilers from the folded WHA's Indiana 步行者. Infact, the NHL had a hand in ensuring 最好的 player in the world 在 that time went to 最好的 possible team. The only reason Gretz played there was because it was the only league that accepted under 18 players. It took years for 马里奥 to build up, including the Pens team around him. Gretz only needed 2-3 years for him 和 the Oilers to form their dynasty. 格雷茨基 on the worst team in the league 和 勒米厄 on the Oilers, I'm sure the story would have unfolded a lot differently... it's scary for 马里奥 to even come so close to 格雷茨基 numbers despite the huge advantage 韦恩 had...

匿名 said...

Like a few lucky souls above, I've had the pleasure of growing up watching both play. With today's faster NHL with better defense 和 goaltending, 格雷茨基 would get only 2/3 of his points. Watching back his highlight goals on youtube, reminded me of how he scores most of his goals. They are only as hard as bantum shots 和 the sucky goalies with the tiny shin-pads back then just let them squeak by. 2 out of those 3 goals of his, some from the blueline would for sure be stopped in the NHL today. But 马里奥's prime came 在 a time when the neutral zone trap was becoming a mastered art, clutching 和 grabbing rising 在 an all-time high, he had to work hard for his goals, would still maintain all the points that he got even with today's faster, defensive NHL.

格雷茨基 was pretty damn good 但got lucky playing 在 the right place 和 the right time on the right team, he would be something more of a "Paul Kariya" if playing today in his prime.

I have one more thing to say... all our opinions are mostly from hockey fans, 和 a few possible amatuer hockey players who may know a thing 要么 two about the game like myself... 但how about the opinions of people who know the most - the players 和 coaches themselves. It's been widely known that 史考特 y Bowman, the winningest coach ever, Mark Messier, the second leading points leader ever, 和 even 韦恩 格雷茨基 himself have said 马里奥 勒米厄 was probably the most gifted 和 talented hockey player ever to lace up a pair of skates. Like some mentioned above, 格雷茨基 even said himself 马里奥 would have probably beat his records if it weren't for his ailing health...

韦恩 格雷茨基 "wins". But 马里奥 勒米厄 was better, it's that simple.

杰西 said...

韦恩 格雷茨基 has more assists than anyone else in NHL history has points. Argument over.

布罗迪·利特尔&克里斯蒂·尼克森(Christy E. 说过...

I think 切利 said it 最好:

There is no doubt that 格雷茨基 had the better career, of course. But 勒米厄 was the better talent.

匿名 said...

哟!如果大家都认为一支好的球队不能帮上忙,那么当99位达油王离开达马车队时,马里奥又如何在他的巅峰时期击败格里茨基?当他去国王的时候,油人又怎么能再赢得一个杯子而又没有格雷茨基呢?思考的食物。 #66 =#1!和平了

匿名 said...

那's Indiana "Racers", not "Pacers" 格雷茨基 was sold from (wrong sport lol). But that's right, 格雷茨基 was never an NHL "rookie" 和 couldn't qualify for 菜鸟 of the year honors due to his previous pro career as a 17 year old despite a 137pt "rookie" campaign.

马里奥 wasn'他只是在1984年联盟最差的球队中入选第一。他的选秀可能是有史以来最烂的NHL球队!除了沃伦·杨(Warren Young),道格·谢登(Doug Shedden)或迈克·布拉德(Mike Bullard)之外,其余84支钢笔很容易成为职业小联盟球员,'甚至没有梦想过NHL的职业't为70年代后期发生的扩张's early 80's... 马里奥 turned a few of those guys like Rob Brown into stars later on.

然后'人们在这场辩论中也忘记了什么。巨大的因素是格雷兹基 's timing 和 the expansion. The NHL underwent major expansion when 格雷茨基 started out, especially when the WHA folded. This totally diluted the talent pool of the NHL for a few years. Which allowed him 和 the Oilers to dominate until it balanced itself out again. 马里奥'最重要的是讨厌的抓/抓"garage league"80年代后期's, early 90's.

格雷茨基 backers can never argue why after the Oilers when 韦恩 left for the Kings, he NEVER could touch 马里奥 在 the scoring title again fair 和 square (and 韦恩 was 在 a prime age of 27). The only post-Oiler years 韦恩 beat 马里奥 was when 勒米厄 was out with injuries. Look carefully 在 the stats 和 compare the post-Oiler years when 马里奥 和 韦恩 played roughly the same number of games. 1988-89 was a prime example. Le Magnifique owned.

匿名 said...

有趣的辩论。一世'35岁,年龄足以捉住两个男人'的职业生涯。毫无疑问,马里奥·莱米厄(Mariolemieux)无疑是nhl曾经见证过的(进攻性)最伟大的天才。一世'我知道一些前'ers who'我与马里奥打过中国彩票,即使男人在实践中所做的事情,他们也感到敬畏。数字游戏不是'在这场辩论中,马里奥非常友善。很多支持马里奥并知道他们做什么的人'重新谈论已经很好地解决了这个问题:导致马里奥赛车在数字战线上失败的所有因素,很明显的是,比起格雷茨基,曲棍球时代,球队等,中国彩票减少了。我认为还有一个重要因素'还没有提到的是两个人在大多数职业生涯中参加的两次会议之间的差距。东部的马里奥(Mario),西部的gretzky(那时"campbell" 和 "wales"). mario's 威尔士 was much more defensive 和 tight-checking than gretzky's high-flying offensive 坎贝尔'的会议。我比较马里奥'的职业,从很多方面来说都是对阿里的回敬。两人都失去了他们的黄金时代。阿里(Ali)因躲避战争草案而被禁止拳击,莱米厄斯因病倒和癌症而抢劫。想想看,马里奥有168、199点的赛季并且还在上升。他仍在20岁初期/中期'在霍奇金之前,他把得分头衔从gretzky夺走了's,只是想想他失去了多少个黄金年? lemieux和ali之间的区别在于,ali可以赎回自己,回到较旧的状态,但仍然能够击败无敌的巨人乔治领班。另一方面,马里奥(Mario)实际上有机会赶上gretzky'历来的职业目标记录,但他心房颤动使他永远受益。它只是过去'一定是。虽然它'很难争辩穆罕默德·阿里'自称你"greatest" in boxing, gretzky is the one destined to be the 最伟大的 one on paper, which unfortunately for mario, in the end is all that counts a hundred years from now.

匿名 said...

Well written. I was a 格雷茨基 fan growing up, too, despite being a Montrealer. I also felt like 勒米厄 was challenging his greatness, especially when he got 199 points. But I eventually got won over in the span of 3 years, when he won those two Cups 和 the Smythes, 和 in '93他从癌症中复出时以积分榜领先。我只知道那时我一直在看着那个家伙。话虽如此,我(像你一样)不'参加克罗斯比VS奥维VS马尔金的傻事...我'我只是把它全部拿进去。

沙兹 说过...

"Look carefully 在 the stats 和 compare the post-Oiler years when 马里奥 和 韦恩 played roughly the same number of games. 1988-89 was a prime example. Le Magnifique owned."

有道理,但是到了这个时候,他们'd switched positions. 马里奥 was on a powerhouse team that won back to back cups, 和 was playing with Jagir, the 2nd 最好 player in the league. 韦恩 was on a sub-par team (not as bad as the one 马里奥 was on 在 the start of his career, 但not great either; their cup run was almost entirely due to 韦恩's post-season brilliance) 和 still put up pretty good numbers. Yes 勒米厄 was the better player by then, 但勒米厄 was also younger, in his prime, 和 on a better team.

格雷茨基 had already been playing for 10 years by then professionally - that'比Bossy,Orr和其他许多杰出人物的整个职业生涯都长。

老实说,我觉得两位球员差不多,但是韦恩更耐久了,'归结为。如果我'm told I have to pick between two players, 但Player 1 is going to be injured often, miss time with cancer (greatest comeback ever though), 但put up amazing numbers when healthy 要么 Player 2, who will put up slightly better numbers, be healthy, have 最好的 playoff numbers in history, 和 set nearly every offensive scoring record in the league, then go on to still give me 7 要么 8 decent years towards the end of his career when his prime is behind him... how can I not choose player 2?

I'm not saying 格雷茨基 was more talented, 但durability is part of the game too. Talent wise they were very equal. But 格雷茨基 was way more durable. 那'就是全部。

马里奥 never managed to play a complete season. It sucked, because he was one of my favorite players ever, 但all those games he wasn't on the ice he wasn't helping his team. 格雷茨基 had even better PPG numbers, 和 of course higher totals, because he didn'不要错过中国彩票次数附近的任何地方,尤其是在他的黄金时期。

匿名 said...

Actually, did you know on his first retirement in 97, 马里奥 had the highest PPG (2.01) 和 GPG (0.802) averages, highest of all time for both stats? At that point he was the only player to ever have a career PPG above 2, not even 格雷茨基 could boast that (1.921). However when 马里奥 came back in 2001 和 suffered all those hip 和 heart injuries 和 retired for good a second time he lowered both averages. PPG belongs back to 格雷茨基 在 1.921 (Lemieux ended with 1.883) 和 GPG is owned by Mike Bossy 在 0.76 (Mario ended up 在 0.75).

This shows stats often can mean nothing. Everything is relative to era. You can argue Maurice the Rocket was 最好 of all time if you wanted.

Statistically speaking, 格雷茨基 dominated in an era where number of goals scored per game were ridiculous, something like over 8 goals per game! 勒米厄's prime was the clutching grabbing period, when goons were allowed to take out 最好的 players without penalty 和 when the neutral-zone trap was mastered 和 teams like the New Jersey Devils who mastered it were winning cups. I think the goals per game 在 that point was below 5, the game of hockey deemed "boring",如此之多,以至于他们不得不在2004年停工后发明规则以再次加快中国彩票速度,例如移除越位中线,要求加注等等。

I agree that talent-wise, they were pretty close, 但I just think 勒米厄 had that extra god-given natural gift 格雷茨基 和 pretty much everyone else could only dream of. 格雷茨基 made up for it with discipline, hours of practice. 勒米厄 wasted it being "lazy",甚至在他的NHL早期都吸烟。也许癌症和疾病是上帝'的惩罚,或因祸得福来使自己的屁股适应。谁知道?

我不知道,我认为's just the intangibles. 格雷茨基 got layed out only once 要么 twice in his career, like when he almost got killed by a Dave Taylor punch 要么 fighting Neal Broten, 但he was very well insulated most of his career, 受保护的 by McSorley, Semenko, etc... nobody would dare rape 格雷茨基 和 live to tell about it the way 勒米厄 had been abused by the likes of Adam Graves, Darius Kaspiritus, Todd Krygier, Brad Ference, etc...

是的,我'll agree with you that if you pick one player for an *entire career* knowing 马里奥's downfalls, I'd pick 格雷茨基.

But if I had to pick between the two for say some super-series like the Canada Cup, Olympics, 要么 Stanley Cup final, with both 在 their peak, 马里奥 勒米厄, hands down, would be the man any time 和 day!

匿名 said...

The real comparison between players with similar skill sets really is Ovechkin 和 Datsyuk. Pavel, like 韦恩, saw the same 3 almost 4 steps ahead of everyone else. Ovechkin, like 马里奥, was so extremely talented people overlooked everything else that was in their game that made them successful. Personally, i think 马里奥 勒米厄 was the most complete player to ever play in the NHL, talent, size, skill, determination, toughness, he had everything. 韦恩 格雷茨基 was without a doubt the 最伟大的 mind in the history of hockey. It just depends on what you prefer. Someone else said it 但i totally agree, 马里奥 was the better talent, 韦恩 had the better career. Its like comparing Emmit Smith to Barry Sanders, 要么 Brett Favre to Dan Marino. 要么 for u NBA fans Kobe to Tracy McGrady (w/o a doubt more talented than kobe just played with bad teams 和 had injuries, sorta similar huh?)

大卫 说过...

我知道这是一篇老文章,但辩论将永远持续下去。

格雷茨基 was 最好的 - part of being 最好的 is longevity. And although 勒米厄 had the misfortune of battling through injuries 和 cancer, people always seem to forget that 格雷茨基 was never the same after Gary Suter crushed him into the boards in the '91加拿大杯。他的后背一直困扰着他直到退休。

唐't get me wrong: clearly 勒米厄 had more talent 和 I loved watching the guy equally. But my personal view on who the 'best' goes beyond just talent. 格雷茨基 gets my vote.

Factual Tidbit: 格雷茨基 played FIFTY (50) minutes in game 2 of the '87加拿大杯决赛。五十分钟。难以置信的。

匿名 said...

格雷茨基’得分手段具有传奇色彩。他’s the NHL’s all-time leader in every major statistical category, 和 his 2,857 career points are 980 more than his nearest competitor. Yet had it not been for poor health, 勒米厄 could have toppled all 格雷茨基’似乎无法到达的记录。

勒米厄, who finished his storied career with 690 goals 和 1,723 points, lost valuable years from his prime due to a chronic bad back 和 a battle with cancer. His health woes forced him to retire in 1997, 和 he did so with a 2.01 points-per-game average, the highest in NHL history. He made a dramatic return three 和 a half years later to keep the struggling Pittsburgh Penguins franchise afloat, 但his advanced age 和 ongoing health problems combined to lower his per-game scoring average to 1.88 points, dropping him below 格雷茨基's 1.92职业平均水平。

Yes, 格雷茨基’s advantage in raw numbers is unmistakable. But hockey pundits often overlook the fact it was much easier to score goals in the early 1980s when 格雷茨基 和 the Edmonton Oilers were running roughshod over the league.

The five highest-scoring seasons in NHL history occurred between 1981 和 1986. During that five-year span, 格雷茨基 amassed a staggering 375 goals 和 1,036 points in 394 games, recording a remarkable 2.63 points-per-game.

但在这里’s the dirty little secret. The league averaged a ridiculous 7.87 goals per game during that five-year stretch. To put that number in perspective, in 2007-08, the NHL averaged 5.57 goals per game. In 1985-86, with the league registering 7.94 goals per contest, 格雷茨基 established the NHL single-season scoring record with 215 points.

In 1988-89, 勒米厄 had his 最好 full season, ringing up 85 goals 和 199 points. 那 year, the league averaged 7.48 goals per game, off 5.8 percent from 1985-86. Adjust 勒米厄’的数字,那么他本可以在80场中国彩票中拿下222分。

In 1992-93, 勒米厄 had a truly magical season, fighting through cancer to produce 69 goals 和 160 points in just 60 games. His 2.67 points-per-game clip rivaled 格雷茨基’1985-86赛季的2.69标准,但联盟在1992-93赛季场均只有7.25个进球,比格雷茨基低8.7%’s record-setting season. Once again, adjust 勒米厄’以1985-86赛季的数据计算,他在80场中国彩票中将获得232分。

However, 勒米厄’s 最伟大的 on-ice challenge 本来可以 in 1995-96. Because of expansion 和 the dreaded neutral zone trap, scoring was down across the league, falling to a paltry 6.29 goals per game. Undaunted, 勒米厄 still managed 69 goals 和 161 points in 70 contests. In 1985-86 numbers, 勒米厄’在80场中国彩票中,他们的总得分将达到223分。

Conversely, take 格雷茨基’s 215-point pace 和 put it in the context of 1995-96, 和 he would have had 148 points over the same 70 games it took 勒米厄 to record 161.

调整两名球员’ stats to the current 2008-09 goals-per-game average of 5.82, 和 格雷茨基 would have a 1.56 career points-per-game mark, while 勒米厄 would check in 在 1.61.

Whether one prefers 格雷茨基 要么 勒米厄 is a matter of opinion. What can’t be argued is 格雷茨基 dominated in an era when it was far easier to score goals. And when the stats are adjusted to reflect the changing league conditions, 勒米厄’s numbers are superior. If not for 勒米厄’健康问题,将不会有辩论。

匿名 said...

您为什么使用Grezky's 215 point season in 85-86 to talk about 勒米厄's 最好 PPG season? 格雷茨基'最好的PPG赛季不是85-86。实际上,他得分为2.77 PPG时实际上是83-84!根据这些数字重新计算,然后's see if 勒米厄 still comes out on top.

匿名 said...

I know this is 4 years old, But I just wanted to say, I grew up hating 格雷茨基. I was from Pittsburgh, so no contest, 马里奥 was king. When 格雷茨基 retired, I finally checked out his career, 和 now, I think the whole debate is ridiculous. They both had more talent than any other hockey players I am aware of, 但they also had totally different talents. 格雷茨基 was unflappable 和 had an amazing vision. He always seemed to know where everyone was on the ice. But he doesn'它只有1条记录。他几乎拥有所有这些。多次结束。对我来说,他就像一个四分卫,建立了其他人。我认为人们非常害怕他的逝世,这使他有能力在自己的顽童中走动。那,再加上他早期的较差装备,意味着守门员无法't see as well, 和 they played totally different. watch those old tapes. the goalies never went down to stop a shot. They stood constantly. But 勒米厄 was more like a Running back. when he had the puck on a breakaway, you knew he was going to score. Period. I also think he tried to help others around him be better, 和 that is why he didn'得分一样多。人们开始意识到他更关心团队。 (尽管他们现在这样做了)很多次,似乎他会等着看别人是否能完成这项工作,而当他们失败时,他会爆炸并得分似乎是随意的。我认为这就是他们辩论的原因。它's two totally different skill sets. 马里奥 will not be forgotten though, because to this day, he holds records that show how great he was. He is the only person to score first shot, first shift in the NHL, first to score every possible way in a single game (short handed, power play, even strength, empty net 和 penalty shot.) His talent was one on one, puck in the net. You wouldn't argue about if 乔 Montana 要么 Walter Payton were better because they played different. I think the same goes here. And in that comparison, you could say kickers are 最好的. They have the most points!

匿名 said...

马里奥'和韦恩一样被低估了's goal scoring. It'当人们说Gretzky拥有本书中几乎所有进球记录时,他更像是传球手而不是得分手,这真是荒谬。但它's also just as ridiculous saying all 马里奥 could do was score. He had a very high assist ratio 和 his passing was just as ridiculous as 99's, he did things 格雷茨基 did like no-look behind the back 180 spin-o-rama passes. And then some - like threading the puck tape-to-tape through a dozen legs 和 sticks. Team mates 和 coaches (Patrick 要么 Bowman I believe) said 马里奥 had the most accurate passes, like a laser beam always on the tape. But what I really want to say, is that both men are great, 但格雷茨基 just played in conditions that made him greater, 和 马里奥 in conditions that lessened his greatness potential (era, team, illness, etc). If you want to use basketball as an anology, you can say 马里奥 was Michael Jordan where 韦恩 was Wilt Chamberlain 要么 Kareem Abdul Jabaar (who had higher points than Jordan, 但played in eras with higher scoring 和 worse defense). If you want to use boxing, then how about 马里奥 being Muhammed Ali while 韦恩 being Rocky Marciano (the only undefeated heavyweight ever)or Mike 泰 son (in his prime who destroyed almost everyone he fought with KOs under 3 rounds). It'很难说Marciano和Tyson aren'太好了,因为他们只装箱"tomato cans",就像说Gretzky不是'太好了,因为他是一个防守不佳和守门员时代的王朝队。但它'并不是那么简单。就像洛基·马尔恰诺(Rocky Marciano)或迈克·泰森(Mike 泰 son)一样,在像阿里这样更困难的拳击时代中,他的表现也不错。's 60's 和 70's,如果Wayne 格雷茨基的主要成绩是90's 要么 2000's. But he wouldn't be such a standout miles above everyone else. And 马里奥 playing on an early 80's Oiler's dynasty team? 那's anyone's guess. But if you want to see what 马里奥 can do in a high-scoring league similar to the early 80's NHL when the Oilers reigned, look 在 马里奥's stats in juniors. They were scary! In his final junior year with Laval in the QMJHL (a high-scoring league), 马里奥 had a ridiculous 133 goals, 149 assists, 282 points in only 70 games! 那'每场超过4分!反正'一堆如果...'s。伟大的定义有很多种。一世'd say as a hockey icon, 格雷茨基 was 最好的 ambassador to the sport as anyone could ever ask for. Everything you can ask for -talent, personality, 和 bringing the game to the US 和 California. 马里奥 only became the hockey prince 和 presence everyone expected from 最好的 player in his later years. 格雷茨基 obviously wins in stats, 但that'就像说洛基·马尔恰诺(Rocky Marciano)或迈克·泰森(Mike 泰 son)可能击败了穆罕默德·阿里(Muhammed Ali)一样,这简直就是个傻瓜。那's为什么在谁身上's "the 最好", "Lemieux" lives up to the name... threading pucks between the goalie behind the goal-line from beyond 30 ft, tape-to-tape laser passes between a dozen sticks 和 legs, one-handed goals while fighting off two defensemen, making hall of fame defensemen like Ray Bourque look silly, deking 和 faking an entire team before undressing their goalie...these are all things only 马里奥's god-given gifts could do 和 every other hockey player in history could only dream of, including Waynw 格雷茨基. People forget that 马里奥 勒米厄 had only 200 fewer goals than 韦恩 格雷茨基 despite having a career almost half as short, including 4 full prime years he didn't even lace up a pair of skates. Yzerman, when passing 勒米厄 in all-time goals 要么 points, was humble 和 said something like "是的,这表明他花了这么长时间终于赶上他对我有多好".

吉姆 说过...

If he had been healthy he career Super 马里奥 probably would have surpassed 韦恩...BUT MORE IMPORTANT he did not use his celeb status like 格雷茨基 to get away with cheap shots 和 take high slashes on other players. 的好人 knew he would never get called on a penalty so he could get away with them as long he did not do it too often...I saw it happen 和 one poor kid had blood on his cheek 和 a shocked look like he had not expected that to happen

匿名 said...

格雷茨基 = The Great One
马里奥 = The Magnificent One
要么
勒米厄 = "The Best"
Healthy 马里奥 = "could have been" The "Greatest" One

但"could have been" doesn't真的很重要=格雷茨赢了!

查理 said...

lilfergie21,我怀疑你'重新回答这个问题,但是为什么在所有内容之间打一个-?很难阅读,更不用说烦人了。

But to my point, which other will back me on. All of those players you mentioned did not play on 马里奥's line. Robitaille was in Pittsburgh long enough that if somebody was stuck in Squirrel Hill Tunnel traffic for more than 30 minutes, you might have missed him. With the exception of being caught in a line change, 马里奥 rarely skated with Robitaille. Same can be said about Recchi in his early years. Trottier was not on the top lines with 马里奥, 和 the numbers you posted were primarily from his years on the Isle. The only players he regularly skated with were Francis 和 Jagr.

那么现在胡说八道呢?

匿名 said...

格雷茨基 was 最好的 especially 5 on 5, lemieux was dominant on the powerplay, when he had time 和 space look out...if you look 在 some of his seasons he averaged over 40 percent of his points on the powerplay one year it was 49 percent...95-95

他在全美橄榄球联盟中获得的所有得分的40%来自强力中国彩票...格罗茨基's was 30 percent.

勒米约35%'pp上的目标,gretzky's was 21 percent

格雷茨基'他在冰上的视野无与伦比...他看到了慢动作的游戏...他使游戏看起来很简单...在网后他真是太神奇了,这些传球是无法阻挡的,而你却没有'看不到今天的球员能够始终如一地进行中国彩票,同样的事情是2比1,如果gretzky的冰球是2比1,那么很有可能进入网络,今天又一次't see that.

True 格雷茨基 played with some great players, 但gretzky made them even greater, especially kurri, I doubt he would of scored that many points had he not played with 格雷茨基

Perhaps 格雷茨基 最伟大的 achievement was his ability to stay healthy. 那 was also part of his genius as his style of play never put him in a position to get hit on a regular basis...He'd躲在网后或当他有冰球并越过蓝线时'd放慢脚步寻找边锋或后卫...他只是看到了这场中国彩票

As a big guy lemieux had a different style 和 was more aggressive 和 he had the talent to go through 2 defencemen...but he was an easier target because of his size 和 aggressive style, especially on the forecheck...I believe 格雷茨基 was the 最伟大的 with 勒米厄 coming a close 2nd

吉姆 说过...

整个辩论只是表明您可以'不能在互联网上证明任何东西。

每个人都出现了一个先入为主的观念。

诺博比提出了令人信服的论点,他们只是发表了意见。

在所有运动播音员类型balderdash的结尾,都没有我们都做过的新信息't already have.

The fans of 马里奥 are still convinced he was 最好的 player in the NHL.



韦恩's fan's are still convinced he as 最好的.

如果都一样,我还是更喜欢戈迪·豪

扶手椅 说过...

韦恩 和 马里奥 were so completely different. The uncanny playmaking of 韦恩 seem to stem from his ability to see into the future. 韦恩 knew where everyone, 和 the puck, was; 和 they were all going to be. Interestingly, it was this same ability that seemed to make it impossible to "line him up"击中怪物每个打电话给他的人"protected", failed to understand. He was 难以捉摸.

您在体育运动中最大的骗局是,在NHL历史上只有一位不受身体检查的球员是Gretzky。说他是胆子"elusive" shows how little this guys really knows about hockey. 的fact that 格雷茨基 was not subject to body checking is like he was playing in a 19 year all-star game. If you check his stats in all-star games with 勒米厄's stats, 勒米厄 had twice as many points in half the games. Given these facts, 勒米厄 was thee 最伟大的 forward to ever lace up a pair of skates. If you don'同意,你错了!

扶手椅 说过...

我想在我之前的帖子中更正我说的一句话:如果您选中他的(Gretzky's) stats in all-star games with 勒米厄's stats, 勒米厄 had twice as many points in half the games. The last part should read: 勒米厄 had as many points in half the games. So that would only make him twice as good as 格雷茨基 when you compare apples to apples not four times as good. I'm just amazed that some people are oblivious to the fact that 格雷茨基, 和 格雷茨基 alone, was not subject to the same rigors of the game as all the other superstars were. Can anyone in here imagine what kind of stats the great Bobby Orr would have had if no one tried to put him through the boards (or in his case) hit him in such dirty ways that he literally played most of his career on one leg. Or if 勒米厄 was allowed to roam free on the ice without having to fear being hit. Come on you guys think! It would be like if only one NFL running back was arm tackled 要么 if only one MBL was thrown pitches right down the middle 在 70 miles per hour. This sham is the only reason that 格雷茨基'的统计数据如此夸张。它可以'这是因为他是NHL历史上唯一一位对身体检查无能为力的人。

匿名 said...

Armchairjock,你是我的英雄。这正是我've known 和 tried to convince some of my buddies for years! 马里奥 had only one 要么 two less all-star points than Gretz 但played half the all-star games!

If Gretz was subject to anywhere near the abuse 马里奥, Crosby, Ovechkin, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy 要么 any of the other greats took, he wouldn't have lasted his 菜鸟 season in the NHL!

I do agree 格雷茨基 had a sixth hockey sense that was his 最伟大的 asset leading ot his greatness that also avoided some serious hits, 但anyone who plays hockey even to a competitive amateur level realizes it'遮蔽并检查任何人,即使是伟大的人也不难。如果有人曲棍球的感觉与大人相似'd be 马里奥 himself. He was also faster than 格雷茨基 和 just as 难以捉摸 to achieve those amazing dekes, even for a big guy. But that didn'不要停止亚当·格雷夫斯(Adam Graves)在季后赛中国彩票中摔断手的恶性斜线,也不要停止费伦斯(Ference),道格·卡彭特(Doug Carpenter),达里乌斯·卡斯皮里图斯(Darius Kaspiritus),托德·克里斯基(Todd Krygier)等人的肮脏贱民...

对于住在加拿大曲棍球之夜的加拿大曲棍球迷,如果您'看了足够多的曲棍球中国彩票,你'我会记得唐·切里(Don Cherry)一次又一次地指出并展示了无数片段,这些片段说明了Gretzky可能/应该如何被钉住,但是却没有't由于无数情况下的优惠待遇。他曾一度遭受职业生涯终结的打击是国际曲棍球美国队的加里·苏特(Gary Suter),中国彩票和环境'像NHL一样保护Gretzky。那里没有Semenko或McSorley可以抵御狼。和格雷兹基'从此以后,事业从未如此。

马里奥 did show what he could do in a high-scoring league, all-star game environment - in his last season in his year in the minors, he averaged over 4 points per game - 我不'不在乎你是哪个联赛're in, that's sick!

乔·佩莱捷 说过...

I think we need to drop the false notion that there was some sort of rule 要么 league conspiracy against hitting 韦恩 格雷茨基. 那 is about the silliest thing I ever heard.

在他的鼎盛时期,我经常看Gretzky。他受到很多打击。他足够聪明,可以离开那些他将无法生存的麻烦地区。他足够快地飞入和飞出这些区域。与当今的塞丁斯一样,他也具有这种令人难以置信的转身能力,就像被攻击者使用时一样'推动他离开现场的动力,几乎总是伴随着冰球!

我将在这里密切关注评论。我认为也许是时候关闭这篇文章的评论了。"Jim"也许总的来说最好,我的文章所传达的信息也很完美。

匿名 said...

没有一个真正伟大的人,他们都很棒。他们在那儿玩,而不是在你那里。与谁没有什么真正的区别,因为其他人的演奏方式也和他们一起玩的人不同,无论是在纸上还是在记忆中都是伟大的。它们都是游戏中真正的伟大,尝试定义谁是更好的是"每个人都有自己的专心"因为没有人真的比其他人更好,所以他们只是不同。

匿名 said...

马里奥 was like the giant Big Mac Truck barreling down the ice to score on a defenseless Goalie. He was handsome, skilled 和 unstoppable. On the other hand 格雷茨基 was skilled 但needed player protection 要么 he would have been concussed like Crosby 和 would have faded away.
他的职业生涯取决于Kurri,Coffey和其他人。
克罗斯比不是'一辆Mac卡车,没有保护装置。他在保护他人方面遭受了脑震荡和打击。
Who is 最好的? Very possibly it is Crosby 和 will be if he survives this new brand of hockey!
感谢我们的幸运星带来的Shanahan恐惧因素。在长期的职业生涯中,这可能给他带来战斗的机会。
勒米厄 was my star pick from the beginning!

大卫·M 说过...

The scary thing about 格雷茨基's Oilers认为他们本来可以有更多积分。

凭借这么多的才华,每个进球只有2次助攻,很多助攻都必须时刻分配4-5 100个指针。

如果每场中国彩票平均进球5个,那么油轮可以从22个球员中获得15分。

So for 格雷茨基 to get about 2.5 points is pretty remarkable when the other stars combined for maybe 8 要么 9 points per game.

In a way, 勒米厄's 最好 season in 88-89 was easier to achieve since there were only Coffey 和 Rob Brown to share a load of the points.

匿名 said...

gretzky更好

他得到了大约5200点的赛季

他的助攻比其他任何人都多

谈话结束

凯莉 said...

I've heard 和 read every argument anyone can make about 马里奥 would have broke 韦恩's记录是否存在这种情况。根据每场中国彩票的统计数据,不,他不会'没有。伤害和健康问题?韦恩(Wayne)在过去的12个赛季中,他创作了2张椎间盘突出的唱片。球队中更好的球员?可以用任何一种方法争论,但您只有2个队友。格雷茨基无法'保护自己,这样你就可以固守自己的立场。好吧,韦恩真的只让库里加入了他的队伍。罗伯·布朗(Rob Brown)在信息方面的投篮命中率要高于库里(Kurri)。罗布·布朗(Rob Brown)仍保持WHL赛季最高得分记录。加油站的团队是如此出色,但只有韦恩获得了所有这些分数。好吧,你的论点不要'hold。您可以争论才能,技巧和领导才能等,并提出自己认为最好的人。但从统计学上说不是'甚至关闭。韦恩在自己的联赛中!

凯莉 said...

有人可以向我解释这种数字调整的原理。我看到过一些帖子说某个赛季的进球数下降了,所以相应地调整每个人的得分等等。'对我来说没有意义,这就是原因。让我们简化一切,说只有4个团队。其中三支球队的最佳射手由于伤缺席了全年中国彩票。假设第四支球队的最佳射手得分50球。第二年,每个团队都将获得全年最佳得分手,因此整体得分将提高。联盟最佳射手获得55球。去年的球员打进50球,再次得分50。因此,现在您根据得分的总体目标来调整数字,并说最后得分50的人今年将得分60。但实际上,他今年得分为50。我不'认为您可以通过调整数字来进行准确而公正的评估。变量太多。

吉姆 说过...

我不'认为这可以解释为公平。
设计了一种系统来尝试将旧计时器与现代玩家进行比较,将较短的计时器与当前的较长计时器进行比较,但是没有'解释规则等方面的差异

我也认为人们会根据自己喜欢的球员和球队来调整这些。

you will hear about Richard 和 his 最好 was during the wartime by those who like other guys better 和 格雷茨基 haters really are fans of someone who they think was ignored because of all the fuzz about the "great one"

太糟糕了...像一辈子一样的运动并不总是公平的

匿名 said...

Gretkzy was an awesome play maker, 但马里奥 was still above in his ability to dominate the ice. And before we get to caught up in comparing 格雷茨基 to Jesus {mand that's sickening}, let us not forget the true 最伟大的 hockey player...Bobby Orr. Period. No was, 要么 is better than Robert Gordon Orr. Maybe some day in the future, 但no one as of yet.

匿名 said...

I just googled gretzky versus lemieux...Head to Head games....When they played against each other throughout their careers 格雷茨基 won big time on the head to head battles...To me that says a lot...as when you go head to head with a rival with simialr skill you want to win...and head to head gretzky wins by a landslide

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=638736

未知 说过...

Agreed!!!! Super 马里奥 all the way!!

未知 说过...

Not even close to 最好的 在 hlete ever!!! What about Ali? Jordan? And my new favorite ussain bolt? All better 在 hletes. The only thing you can argue is he's 最好的 passer ever 但all around hockey player goes to 勒米厄 要么 bobby Orr...

未知 说过...

对我来说,作为非北美人 's an impossible comparison, they were so different player types; 勒米厄 was the perfect power forward 和 格雷茨基 the perfect playmaker.

顺便说一句,这是一个真正伟大的网站。

凯文 说过...

格雷茨基有能力不必进行防守。菲尔·埃斯波西托(Phil Esposito)称格雷茨基是有史以来最聪明的曲棍球运动员。我相信韦恩'的能力一直很难定义,因为这些能力对他来说绝对是独一无二的。他是最伟大的吗?我想这样说,可以公平地说,随着NHL的变革(就像奥尔一样),他可能拥有了NHL'S 最伟大的 career in terms of stats 和 as an ambassador to the game. Orr could do it all they say(score, playmake, fight)he was like a man among Boys in some ways. 勒米厄 was similar 但was not as multi dimensional as Orr. So here is my ranking. 1.Gretzky-undefinable player raised everyone'的水平,深不可测的职业生涯。更改了游戏的玩法。

2.Orr-best纯净的曲棍球运动员。他能做到的一切都改变了中国彩票的方式。

3.Lemieux- 最伟大的 one on one(and many times two) offensive power

4.Howe-长寿,身体上的主宰。

所有四个参与者都以一种或另一种方式高于同龄人,并且在许多情况下没有同龄人。